Dungeon Keeper 3: War for the Overworld

1999/2000 - Developed by Bullfrog Productions; Produced by Electronic Arts

Introduction

Dungeon Keeper is considered by many as one of the best real-time strategy games ever made and quickly gained a huge fanbase after its release in 1997. The follow-up, however, did not do as well as expected in the marketplace. When the decision was made to go on with the series, the developers were instructed to make Dungeon Keeper 3 more accessible so that the game would reach a wider audience. With a small team of only three people, the project entered the conceptual stage in November of 1999. Roughly four months later, Electronic Arts pulled the plug in favour of games that promised more profit and were less risky, but they did not let the public know about the cancellation until August 1, 2000.

Source credits: Ernest W. Adams

Creator Speaks

The Story Behind Dungeon Keeper 3

Written by Ernest W. Adams for pcGTW, August 2006

In August of 1999, I was brought from EA headquarters in Redwood City, California to Bullfrog Productions in Guildford, England, to be the lead designer on the next game in the Populous series. (EA had already purchased Bullfrog at that time, and Peter Molyneux had left to found Lionhead.) Populous: The Beginning had been something of a disappointment (financially) and a Bullfrog team had worked on a sequel for a while without getting very far. I came to start over and provide some new blood. We called the project Genesis: The Hand of God, and did some great prototype work on it for several months.

Horny staring at the sky (from the DK3 trailer)

Unfortunately, Lionhead was hard at work on Black and White at the time, which EA was going to publish. The Bullfrog management became concerned that we were too close to Black and White. I disputed that on various creative grounds, but marketing people see things differently. The upshot was that Genesis got cancelled. They looked around for something else to do with me, and decided on Dungeon Keeper 3. There were only three of us on the project: Nick Goldsworthy, the producer; me, the lead designer; and Nick Ricks, a game designer working for me. At that point I thought, well, this is a franchise that the company has already turned into two products, they’ll be behind this. However, we also knew that Keeper 2 hadn’t performed as well as hoped in the marketplace, so we were under instructions to make the new version more accessible.

We started work around November of 1999 with just the three of us – no programmers or artists – doing high-level concept design. We had a number of key changes in mind. First, in an effort to remove some of the ambiguity about the nature of the game (which would have comforted marketing and the retailers), Keeper 3 would have been more of a straightforward RTS. Not merely a copy of all the others, though; we were still keeping portals and the need to nurture unique individual creatures, as well as retaining the imps and chickens. Another huge change, which I was very much looking forward to, was a move above ground so that instead of building a dungeon by digging you built a castle by construction – not unlike the later Stronghold games. This required some thinking, as an underground dungeon is effectively safe and hidden until the walls are breached, while a castle is just the opposite: it’s both visible and vulnerable until the walls are completed. We didn’t get far enough to resolve this question; it was just something we knew we would have to address.

The third major change we had in mind was to add a new race, and to let you play any of the three: Heroes, Dungeon-Dwellers, or the third race, the Elders. The Dungeon-Dwellers we expected to be very similar to the familiar ones from the earlier games. Their castle would look black and evil, and all the land around it would start to decay and become vile. The Heroes we decided to make very clean and organized – their castles would be white stone and beautiful, and the landscape under their control very orderly and neat, rather like Switzerland. The new race, the Elders, would have represented the spirit of wilderness, neither good nor evil, just wild and untamed. Their castle would have looked very organic, formed of trees and hills, and the land all overgrown with forests and vines. One item on the task list was to devise equivalent creatures to the Horned Reaper for each of these other races.

We also planned to make the economy of the game a little more interesting by including peasant farmers whom you would try to control and exploit, rather than simply digging out gold. We hoped to make it more a game of growth and evolution, moving a little closer to Age of Empires (in economic terms) than simply a question of mass production.

One of our major goals was to improve multiplayer play. Earlier versions of Dungeon Keeper were never very good in multiplayer modes, because the underground layouts were rigidly symmetrical, and both sides always had exactly the same kinds of creatures to play with. It really became a race for resources more than anything else. We wanted to make a more asymmetric game in which players could choose to play any of the races, each of which would have its own strengths and weaknesses. I considered StarCraft a major inspiration, and played a lot of it in those days.

Another screenshot from the DK3 trailer

At some point in the project, Nick Goldsworthy and I swapped roles – he had been producer on Dungeon Keeper 2 and wanted to do more design. I was willing to give that a try. However, the difference was minor – we were all working on design.

We got a fair bit of work done, thinking about typical RTS-like issues – supply lines, siege engines that needed creatures to work them, creating unique individuals by mesh warping, interfaces for managing mixed indoor and outdoor combat (the dungeon heart would still have been inside the castle), and so on. However, it all became moot about March of 2000. Electronic Arts foresaw bad times ahead because of the downturn in game sales that preceded the arrival of the PlayStation 2. This was exactly analogous to the slump the industry is in now as it awaits the PlayStation 3 – consumers are waiting for the new machine, and not buying new games for the old one. The company decided to retrench and avoid any risky projects, especially PC projects, which don’t make as much money as console ones do. At the same time – unbeknownst to us – they were negotiating with J.K. Rowling for the rights to Harry Potter, and with New Line Cinema for the rights to The Lord of the Rings. Given the choice between an experimental DK3 and the absolute license-to-print-money that were Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings, it wasn’t a difficult decision. Dungeon Keeper 3 was cancelled, and we were moved on to other things. In addition, the company began laying off staff because of the financial losses they anticipated (and indeed eventually suffered – their first money-losing quarter in ten years happened because of the downturn between consoles). Finally, they did away with the Bullfrog brand entirely. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings weren’t going to be Bullfrog-brand games, but they were being made by Bullfrog people, so in effect there was no more Bullfrog.

So DK3 existed as an ongoing project between about November of 1999 and March of 2000. I have no idea who set up the website – there was never much on it, and neither I nor any of my team was involved. It was never more than a teaser, really. [...] That’s about all there is to say. I understand the financial motives for killing it, but I regret it all the same – it would have been fun to work on and, I believe, fun to play as well!

Game Credits

Lead DesignerErnest W. Adams
Game Design Nick Ricks
Producer Nick Goldsworthy

Concept Art

The concept art below was created by Nick Ricks for Electronic Arts.

Elder Forest View Hero Castle View Keeper Fortress View

ยป more concept art


Comments

By Signature-Skitz on 17.07.2009 18:34 IP: -.-.-.-
I have to admit that I would adore having a third installment of the game. And having it aboveground with three playable factions would be good too. But I'm going to agree with the others in saying that the 'Dungeon Dwellers' should remain underground. And how hard would that be? Instead of building up... they dig. Have a few access doors and give the other factions ways to detect underground lairs and it should balance it out. I mean... give each race a flavor! The elder could 'grow' their groves, the 'good' would build a castle, and the evil would dig out a dungeon! Good lord... I'm getting way to worked up about a game that isn't gonna get made :(

By luly on 30.12.2008 22:12 IP: -.-.-.-
I played DK1 and DK2 when they first came out. My son was able to get me a copy of DK2 that works on Vista. I was hesitent to try it for fear my memory would be better than the game, but it's just as good as I remember. I've been playing for hours and look forward to it when I cant play (I cant say the same for MMO's Ive played lately). I wish EA would rethink DK3. but keep it the same as the originals, above ground or under! But not Age of Empires "like", if you want that then play Age of Empires or similar game (which I personally dont enjoy).

By Chris on 19.12.2008 11:52 IP: -.-.-.-
Ea Games have enough money now so why dont they reopen the project and release dkr.3 better then eve

By Baz on 09.12.2008 20:36 IP: -.-.-.-
check this out http://kotaku.com/5100216/ea-announce-dungeon-keeper-mmo

By Someone Else on 07.12.2008 03:35 IP: -.-.-.-
D: I miss DK , i loved DK1 and 2..
The concept art or DK3 looks cool
I guess instead of digging for halls and tunnels u have to build walls in this one..
Idk how far this game got with developments..cant it be share with the public..other wise it was all for nothing

By Art on 06.12.2008 06:45 IP: -.-.-.-
Loved DK2 and longed for DK3. If there is still worry about it turning profit as a computer game, port it to the wii. the remote seems like a natural replacement for the mouse and the rest of the controls can be mapped to buttons and on-screen options.

and I kinda like the idea of taking the fight topside a bit and hitting the heroes where it hurts.

By Tandi on 20.11.2008 13:06 IP: -.-.-.-
I miss DK and would give anything to have yet another addition to it. I could spend hours playing it, building it up and creating my own realms. Why would a company give up something that was loved and is still loved so many? Online games get old after awhile, always the same crap but DK, you can always load it and get lost in it for hours.

By FiskeFyren on 15.11.2008 22:26 IP: -.-.-.-
Like most people say, that overground thing would make DK3 not a DK... it should be undergound thats what i fucking love about this game! am still playing DK2 now and then because there is nothing like it! and probably never will be... sadly :(

By owl on 04.11.2008 15:59 IP: -.-.-.-
iv been playing dk since i had a computer and was the reason i brought a computer and own a windows computer instead of just a mac laptop! from the age of 8 this has been my favorite game

im not asking you to make dk 3 i am asking, begging you to hopefully make a remake of one and two combined

yes that what i would pay as much as 60 quid for...

a dk game with all the rooms from the first 2nd mayby more a dk game with the same or simlar graphics to dk 2 a dk game with the gameplay of dk one, (not with all that combat pit to get your creature to level 8 but from 8 - 10 would be ace) some new FRIGGING LEVELs! i would even love it if you did only remake of dk1 and made new levels! i have completed it soooo many times!

soo yes.. what i am asking is take the best parts from both I WANT DRAGONS! *coughs*

if you did this you wouldnt have to call if dk3 it could be Dk remastered or something like that people would buy it money would be made... end of

lv owl xXx

By SystemRoot on 29.10.2008 22:18 IP: -.-.-.-
EA made a terrible mistake cancelling DK3. I can only hope, sometime they change their mind.

By Aparoflexor on 08.09.2008 17:09 IP: -.-.-.-
what can i say... we should thank them for not releasing DK3. the major thing that set apart DK from other RTS was the underground building, digging, breaching, figting and territory claiming, and i can hardly see how would this work in the surface. i love DK because of its innovation and how it sets apart from other RTS games like command & conquer, age of empires o warcraft which, even though they are good, the eviroment is pretty much the same. i mean, you cant even call "dungeon keeper" a game set in the surface.


...still, if DK3 was meant to be done like the previous DK games, then i would be upset.

By Ondersjaak on 16.08.2008 14:31 IP: -.-.-.-
@Vipra: Overlord was created by the Dutch Triumph Studios and published by Codemasters, so EA doesn't have anything to do with it.

By Vipra on 07.08.2008 19:14 IP: -.-.-.-
EA since buying out Bullfrog and Westwood have now published C+C3 and Red Alert 3 is not far away, so why the hell are they not getting the Bull Frog team back together and some new talent and getting their heads together for DK3? Overlord was quite shit, and yet sold very well.. even spawning an expansion. Yet you were hardly evil at all in it, It's about time EA got this franchise sorted out and back on bloody track, instead of wasting great talent on their usual cash in shit.

By Neeko on 22.07.2008 02:21 IP: -.-.-.-
When I saw the trailer for DK3 I was ecstatic, now I feel let down by a company who made great games.

Black and White was boring compared to DK. LOTR was a pile of ass and chips and Harry Potter should have remained JUST a book. It was genuinely fun to be purely evil and lead a mob of monsters to kill the goody-goody heroes.

I want DK3. Nuff said.

By Zacariah - The elite Dark Angel on 18.07.2008 03:06 IP: -.-.-.-
DK3 would be awesome. It needs to be made. But i think making it like age of empires would ruin it. You may as well not even have the name "Dungeon Keeper" on it, cause it wouldnt be DK enough. It could be a multi - level dungeon that can have different rooms on different layers, with more monsters, and a story-line for heros, and maybe another race, maybe like making undead their own faction or something. But the point is, the ideas of the originals is genious. Im sure that you would sell more having it like DK or DK2. The digging and mining through the underworld is great. And as in the other posts, you could make it more brutal or bloody. But DONT GET RID OF THE DANCING AT THE CASINO! PLEASE NO!

By Bolkar on 18.07.2008 00:50 IP: -.-.-.-
I had so much fun playing both DK games during my teenager years. I would love to see the DKIII on my PC with amazing graphics and similar game mechanics.
I would clasify DK as a different RTS game, just like the Z. The resource management and unit production is much different (and nicer if you ask me) than the classic, build the factory dump the units out as much as you can. I believe that added potential for extra strategy instead of being a fast clicker in the right order.

By Nutz on 11.06.2008 12:36 IP: -.-.-.-
DK1 was awesome but I think after that, it went a little astray. DK2 is fun, mind you, but not as much so as 1, it lacks darker more sarcastic humor and underground feeling to it. DK2 looks more like some very rocky place as opposed to underground. I think if DK3 is to be done, it should take whats good from 1, add my pet dungeon from 2, some good graphics, better multi-player and editing and maybe add a 3rd dimension with the above ground parts playing a minor role. An extra team could be added in, but it might detract a little from what makes dungeon keeper... Dungeon keeper, the Idea of playing as an evil dungeon overlord aiming for world conquest.

By French67 on 02.06.2008 17:32 IP: -.-.-.-
What about making on open-source DKIII? Would this infringe on copyright law?
For example, some programmers would give some of their time to create the game (collaborative development), and instead of naming it Dungeon Keeper III , they would name it: "Underground Keeper"
And that's it! I'm sure Lionhead Studios would be for it (and it would make them free advertizing without any costs!)

By Rudolp Britz on 24.04.2008 06:24 IP: -.-.-.-
Damn, really sad. I really want to play Dungeon Keeper. The idea of the game is very good. DK 1 and DK 2 was very nice. DK 1 was must beter than DK 2, but DK 2 graphics was better and more funny. So they want to Made DK 3 out in the Daylight. Come one that will be a brilliant idea. Is will be more fun and graphic will be nice. When DK 3 come on for sure. I will really buy the offical game next. They must made it on a online game too. Damn i am crying for it. I am sure it now TIME TO BRING DUNGEON KEEPER BACK.

By Patrick on 22.04.2008 21:08 IP: -.-.-.-
They just have to bring back the Reaper! Dungeon Keeper 3, please... or hand it over to Peter at Lionhead Studios! He'll be willing to take the "risk" which won't be one. Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3SEl3TfP68 for my "We want it" promoting video on YouTube!

By Thanos on 05.04.2008 13:02 IP: -.-.-.-
Played Dungeon Keeper, when I was 10 years old for the first time (97). Since then, every year I feel compelled to start playing it again, and again. It's the only game that I play these days on my PC.
The best game ever.
Damn shame, that I didn't like DKII and Dungeon Keeper 3 never came out.

By windowskiller [admin] on 23.02.2008 17:10 IP: -.-.-.-
Er... what? Are you trying to say that they ripped the ideas from WarCraft III? Then they must have the power of time-travelling because DK3 was cancelled 2 years *before* WC3 came out. Moreover, it's not that Blizzard invented those races either...

By Capt_Poco on 23.02.2008 17:02 IP: -.-.-.-
Thanks for posting the concept art, but the game design screams "Blizzard-clone". Elders=Night Elves, Dungeon-Dwellers=Undead, Heroes=Humans. No offense, but it doesn't take some kind of computer-design genius to figure out why they canceled you. DK was cool not because it out-Blizzard-ed Blizzard but because it tried something new and cool.

By Nate on 21.02.2008 01:25 IP: -.-.-.-
like MANY people said before me, RTS games are too common. This one style of gameplay was amazing.

i can see the problem with the whole "building a dungeon above-ground" thing, so why not do it?

you have a dungeon heart, usual interface, and a staircase somewhere on the map, with a tab somewhere, added onto the list of panels, that brings you to an above-ground view, still the same as underground, but instead of the dirt, there are trees, which you can cut down, and your imps can still claim path, but looks different than the dirt paths underground.

By Earwig on 07.02.2008 17:50 IP: -.-.-.-
I can think of a pretty quick way to overcome the overground/underground issue- cliff faces. There's a game I play called Dwarf Fortress (if you've never seen it, and have a lot of time on your hands to learn it, definitely look into it), where your game starts by digging into a cliff face. There's the outside away from the cliffs as well, and you can explore as far as you want in any direction, but the cliffs are Home. If expansion is your worry, then have it where they can continue to build underground away from the cliffs, or like shay had said, 3D maps where you had several floors- you could spread out from your initial caves. That way you have a functioning "building" above ground in the caves, with rooms just like the other races.

Which brings me to the Elders- make it so they REQUIRE trees to build, literally twisting the trees out of the way in much the same way the Imps carve out the dirt. Several levels of trees are possible that way too, to make separate "floors".

As for the Heroes... well. Buildings, I guess. They're the ones getting invaded by the enemy, they're the ones on the defensive... so it feels right that they'd have to build instead of destroy (clearing out dirt) to have a haven.

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games/keeper3.txt · Last modified: 26.02.2008 15:50
 

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